Is Using AI the Ultimate in ND masking?
AI can feel like a miracle — especially when you’re neurodivergent, low on energy, and trying to exist in a world that expects clear, calm, “professional” communication at all times. But when you’ve spent years masking to survive, it raises an uncomfortable question: is AI genuine support… or just another layer of performance?
In this episode, we explore why masking is so exhausting, how much of it is about survival rather than choice, and why tools that help us soften, shorten, or translate our communication can feel both relieving and risky. We talk about AI as an accessibility tool, a translator between ND and NT worlds, and a way to conserve spoons — while also questioning where the line is between filtering and hiding yourself.
We dig into authenticity in a tech-supported world, the emotional risks of over-reliance, and why using tools to meet your needs isn’t cheating, dishonest, or “taking shortcuts.” If you’ve ever worried that using AI means you’re masking harder, losing your voice, or somehow being less real — this episode is a reminder that support isn’t the same as pretending to be someone else.
Please share with anyone you think this topic might resonate with. Send any questions or suggestions to or contact us here: hosts@businessoddcast.com
Don’t forget to like and subscribe or follow along on the socials, see below timeline for details.
Together we can build a healthier, happier way to work!
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TIMELINE
00:00:00 – Welcome & Introduction to the Show
00:00:19 – Topic of the Week: Is Using AI the Ultimate in ND Masking?
00:02:00 – Masking and the exhaustion of editing your whole self
00:03:35 – The high cost of masking your magnificent inner zebra
00:07:13 – The gift and relief of finding out you’re ND
00:10:05 – Is AI a miracle NT translation tool to support your needs?
00:13:35 – Is using AI to support your work just a new mask?
00:15:34 – Why does society make life so difficult for disabled people?
00:17:05 – Reduce cognitive load with simpler signage, equality isn’t equity
00:18:38 – AI/LLMs help you show up as a better version of yourself
00:20:47 – Who are we masking for when we use AI?
00:23:40 – Being rude to AI and the wrong way to use it
00:25:01 – It’s not about hiding the truth, like masking, it’s a support tool
00:25:52 – AI is an ND/NT translator – the Babel Fish for modern life
00:27:10 – AI for idea iteration, not the finished product saves spoons
00:30:30 – The emotional (and other) risks on being over-reliant on AI
00:34:13 – Is it just a tool, to do a job, saving time and energy?
00:35:40 – Using AI intentionally to lighten the load not replace you
00:39:01 – Delegating to AI and remaining authentic
00:42:08 – Using AI when you don’t have the spoons
00:45:00 – Stephen Hawking and other examples of using tech to assist you
00:49:44 – Technology isn’t bad, esp. when it makes up for your shortcomings
00:51:54 – Are you using AI? Feedback, comments
00:52:20 – This week’s takeaways.
00:53:15 – Tips and insights
00:54:38 – Hannah’s TANGENT!
00:58:40 – Equity is not the same as equality
01:00:34 – Next Week’s Topic – Running on Empty; How ND Energy Actually Works
01:01:52 – LENGTH
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RESOURCES
https://here2help.uk/further-information/ – Fab resource and amazing organisation raising awareness and support for autistic suicide prevention.
Information regarding Alexythimia and other helpful autism and autistic related factsheets on the link.
https://bigmoosecharity.co – Emergency mental health support, Big Moose provides fast and effective therapy for people who are struggling.
https://shineradio.uk – Local Radio Petersfield, Bordon & Whitehill and beyond!
https://businessoddcast.com/help – our range of resources for Neurodiverse business owners, helping you thrive, survive and live more fulfilling lives.
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OUR WEBSITE & CONTACT
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hosts@businessoddcast.com
OUR SOCIALS
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Stuart: The Business Podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, it’s another business podcast. Welcome to episode 25. I am your host, Stuart Morrison, and this is my co- host, Hannah Logan.
Hannah: Yay. Hello.
Stuart: Hannah Logan. What is our fantastic topic of the week?
Hannah: Ah — so this week we’re going to be looking into whether using AI is the ultimate in neurodiverse masking.
Stuart: Oo, interesting.
Hannah: So I think it’s safe to say — or fair to say — that AI has become a lifeline for many people, and almost certainly a lot of neurodivergent people are included in that. Um, it can help with writing emails, organizing thoughts, planning tasks, regulating your tone, um, and just basically showing up in ways that can make us feel more acceptable to the outside world.
But then that raises a complicated question, doesn’t it? Like, are we using it as a support tool along with everybody else, or are we actually using it as another way to mask? Because for ND people like us that have spent years editing themselves to sound clearer, calmer, “more normal” in inverted commas, um… AI can feel like both relief but also pressure because it almost encourages us to, you know, not be our natural selves as well.
So, you know, this isn’t an anti-AI episode — not in the least. It’s about looking at intentional use, the authenticity, and also, you know, encouraging people, giving them permission to exist as they are with or without the tools.
So yeah, that’s a deep dive into what we’re going to be talking about this week. So: is AI a support tool, or is it getting in the way and just adding to the layers of masking?
Stuart: Interesting. Interesting. So let’s start really, I suppose… everybody out there listening will be fully aware of what masking actually is, but also looking at why it’s so exhausting. So masking isn’t just social — it’s cognitive, emotional, communicative — um, and it’s often more about survival than a choice, really.
Hannah: Oh, it’s editing your whole self.
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah.
Hannah: Not good enough. What can I tweak? And all of that stuff. So… you know, yeah — editing your tone, your language, your reactions… and thinking, you know, when I’m doing stuff sometimes I’m thinking, “Is my face looking too happy? Because this is a sad conversation.” You know — what’s my face doing? It’s this constant worry that other people are probably not doing.
Um, and it’s, you know, hiding confusion and sort of overwhelm and intensity by masking our way out of that. Um, but then also, you know, what’s the long-term cost of constant self-monitoring? Because, I mean, I know it’s exhausting because I do it quite a bit — and I do it a lot less than I used to.
Um, I really do because I tell you what: I surround myself with people — you taught me this — I surround myself with people that don’t require that. You know, you might get the odd raised eyebrow when I rattle off on some random tangent, but generally I’m with my tribe. So I’m not required to pretend to be anybody other than my magnificent self.
Stuart: Yeah. You know, I broke at age 25 and refused to put the mask back on. Um, and it has cost me over the years. Uh, just from a… because I didn’t know who I was anyway, but I was just refusing to be this kind of toned down, tuned out, “don’t react, don’t respond,” put everything in a bag, hide away.
Even then, you’re too much. People laugh at you. The butt of all the jokes. Nobody wants to spend their time voluntarily with you. Just all of the things that I think back on — like I was looking for all the approvals and just to fit in. And it was quite clearly… it’s like, you know, I’m a zebra and I’m with all the horses. And you’re there, you know — and at least now, with the “suits,” they know. They know what they’re getting straight up.
He’s a zebra over there. This is a magnificent zebra. So yes — no — I get it. I understand it. And once I understood what masking was, that for me was one of the biggest lessons that I learned: “Oh, it’s very performative.” This is why you’re struggling with that. It just… all of the pieces fell into place.
And this is the thing that people talk about labels. The gift that I got given at the age of 57 was: I have a reason for all of these things. That is so freeing. That is just… that’s like, “Oh, I’m not a broken human being. I’m actually a perfectly normal human being who just happens to be neurodiverse.” Yeah. Well, to nobody’s surprise.
Hannah: Are you sure, Stuart? I think they might have messed up the tests.
Stuart: Do you think 18 months of deep dive, and two really lengthy interviews, uh… and basically three separate qualified professionals, and a peer review board of all their notes and their findings… Yeah. People aren’t doing this and… just like the whole idea that people are doing this for… what? There is literally a leaflet. I got sent a PDF with three pages in it of “Now you’re neurodiverse. Here you go. Three pages. Good luck with that.” Yeah. Off you sod. Keep trying to fit in. Good luck, Stu.
Yeah. Yeah. So, the notion that there’s vast swathes of people that are jumping on some kind of freeload of help… and for those that do need the help and advice, I think — and I’m speaking this kind of in a broad brushstroke — but I think the majority of people who get diagnosed, who are highly educated, smart people who have been masking for many, many years, who suddenly come to this self-… diagnosis / rational realization of “Oh, well, that fits”… they’re not doing it for attention. They’re not doing it for reward. They’re doing it because they’re absolutely burnt out.
And actually, the relief of it — that “Oh, I’m not one step away from being psychotic,” or, you know, “I’m not a psychopath. I’m not this. I’m not that. I’m just this different species of human.”
Hanah: Yeah.
Stuart: Not any worse, not any better — just different. Just a different flavor.
Hannah: Yeah. I mean… when I found out I was neurodiverse and then I started — you know, who knew — started to do a deep dive for hours and hours through the night… Yeah. The signs were there.
Um, watching all the video, watching TikTok over and over… you know, I looked at things like rejection sensitivity dysphoria, and emotional regulation — or deregulation — and understanding: okay, so when I have a meltdown about something that most people would think, “What is she doing?” actually my body is viewing that situation differently. My brain is viewing that. So I’m melting down to something that in my brain is a complete catastrophe.
So it’s not that I’m like crying ’cause somebody used my favorite spoon — it is so much bigger than that in my brain. So it’s a crap example, but you know what I mean.
So yeah, for me understanding all of these terms and these different sort of attributes / comorbidities of autism and stuff has been hugely helpful. And I say it all the time, but if every time you went running, Stuart, you got really bad chest pains and you were out of breath and—
Stuart: I do.
Hannah: Yeah, I was going to say that would definitely be me. But let’s say, you know, you were getting a sort of worrying pain and then somebody said, “Well, actually, you know, your heart’s a little different… something going on there.” Um, you’d be like, “Oh, phew. I now know what’s going on.”
It’s no different. I’m simplifying — sorry listeners — but yes. You know, when you’ve got a diagnosis of anything, you understand your body, your brain, whatever it is, better. And then you know what you can do to work with that better — whether it’s a physical health thing, or a diet, you know, or a neurotype of your brain.
Stuart: So that’s the underlying map of what we’re dealing with, you know. Um, sometimes communication can be a struggle. Um, somebody says something and your head goes into knots, you know, trying to read into all of the things. Because a lot of the time the reason that these mechanisms in your head have built over time is because your own safety and sanity and your own sense of who you are has often been challenged by outcomes.
You’re like, “Well, why did that go badly wrong? I can’t…” And it’s almost like you can’t see the wood for the trees. You can’t see the neurodiversity for being the neurodiverse person you are. And especially when you’re masking, because you think, “Well, I’m doing all the same things as all the other people — holding it in the right places.”
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m trying to stare in their eyes as much as I possibly can.
Stuart: Just look like a serial killer at that point.
Hannah: So, this brings us neatly into the AI piece. You know, this is why AI can feel like a bit of a miracle tool, because you immediately have got something that can translate into neurotypical. You’ve got things that can make you seem less blunt and abrupt. You can tell AI, “Look, write this in a friendly, professional tone,” um, when you have no energy or spoons to do that.
And that can be the difference. You know, somebody gets you on the wrong day when you’ve just got some bad news and the whole thing’s going wrong. I mean, we were talking about delegating the other day — you know, if that’s gone wrong and then on top of it something else happens, that can wipe out all your spoons. And then somebody comes to you and you respond in the moment, and you read it back later and you think, “Oh, that was a bit blunt.”
But just whacking it quickly into AI and saying, “Make this a bit more friendly.”
Stuart: But is that us making up in a way which is unhealthy? Being neurodivergent is a disability. It is recognised under the Disabilities Act. You don’t need a diagnosis — self-diagnosis is acceptable in terms of occupation and asking for accommodations at work. But it is a disability.
And if AI is the tool that helps — I mean, you know, in blunt terms, like a wheelchair for somebody who has struggles with their mobility — um, is it something therefore that is going to make life a lot easier in future if, at the times you need to use it, you can get your needs met?
Hannah: Yeah. Um, I mean for me, you know, I’m a big fan of it and I do use it as a… I don’t know if I’d call it a miracle tool, but it’s certainly really helpful.
I mean, you know, sometimes if somebody sends me a really long email — which is ironic because most of my emails are really long when I’m sending them outbound — then sometimes I chuck it into ChatGPT (or other ones are available).
Yeah, most people are on ChatGPT. Um, and I ask, “What is this person saying? Give it to me in simple terms.” And it does. And it takes all the emotion out and, you know, all of that stuff.
Stuart: Um, and also I find that sometimes I can be overcomplicated because I’m trying to not make any assumptions and give people the full facts, when actually sometimes it can be a bit more than is required for the situation.
So chucking it into ChatGPT and you can say, “Reduce this — make sure the meaning is kept — but simplify it for a non-technical audience.” That saved me. I’m sure that saved me some customers.
Why is he being so picky? I’m not — I’m just trying. Yeah. Well, that’s what you’re paying me for.
Hannah: I mean, it also… surely it’s no different if— you know, for example, I know that I can overexplain stuff and go into too much detail when it’s not required. So therefore, knowing that and having access to a tool that can save me probably two hours of reading the same email over and over and over… I mean, who wouldn’t want to use that?
But, you know, that leads quite nicely into the next part of this discussion really: what happens when the support — or using it as a support — starts to feel like a new mask?
You know, does it get to a point — and I’ve experienced this myself to some degree — does it get to a point where you suddenly feel like actually you can only be this polished version that AI tweaked?
You know, I’m not there at all, but… I’ve got one client that doesn’t like waffle. Well, yeah. Why did they pick me? But yeah. Okay.
Stuart: Because they wanted someone for detail.
Hannah: They do — and they love the detail of the stuff, the content that I do. But I’m aware that this person’s short on time and they really like a kind of two-line email. I really struggle with that.
So, you know, I have a “GPT” that just tweaks it and delivers it to this client the way that they need to hear it. And maybe they know that I’m doing that. I don’t know. I’m not fundamentally changing who I am — I’m just summarizing — because otherwise in the past, before these things existed, I’d have just reread and reread over and over… “Oh it’s too waffly, they’re going to hate me,” and RSD tickling in there, and oh—
Stuart: Yeah, I’ve got a customer who has been known to send one-word emails. One word.
Hannah: Just one word?
Stuart: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, actually, that just— you know, or you send them a long lengthy email and they’ll say something like, “Copy that.”
Hannah: You’re like, “I just want a tiny bit more. I just need a tiny bit.”
Stuart: So I can’t close that tab then. That’s going to be flashing red next week. I need all the answers to the questions.
Hannah: I have so many questions in the blank space in your email. Um…
Stuart: But no, I hear that. You know, the thought that occurs to me here is — and I’m kind of applying this in real time to other scenarios, so if I get this wrong forgive me — but don’t we ask a lot of disabled people to make up the shortfall to be less disabled?
And when you go out into the built world — and again I’m going to make it in terms of physical disability — if you have mobility issues, the physical world has done a lot to make mobility issues less of an issue. There are accessibility laws: ramps, lifts… things are put in place because people realize that not every single person has the same mobility.
Even if you’re a perfectly physically healthy specimen, as you age your mobility and your physical attributes will diminish.
But we don’t make any of those accommodations for cognitive differences. We’re all expected to understand the world in the same way. It’s presented in exactly the same way. The information is— sometimes I am presented information and I’m like, “I am not sure what you’re telling me here. I’m going to have to do some mental maths.”
And I’m thinking, why do we make the world so difficult? We’ve got children in the world. Not everything is for a child, but if you made it mandatory that all public notices have to be at a reading age of 12, how simple would things be?
And you could say, “Oh, that’s dumbing down society.” Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it’s reducing the cognitive load for everyone. You know, it’s not just simple for simplistic sake. It’s like: we’re all busy, we’ve all got a life, and there are some of us who are struggling with a little bit more than everybody else. So why don’t we just be kind to everyone?
It’s not just about— and this is the other thing — it’s like this inherent fairness. “Well, it’s not fair because it’s not the same for everyone.” It’s like: yeah. That’s right. You identified it. It is not fair. That’s why equity and equality are completely different things.
Hannah: Hmmm.
Stuart: And when you can explain that to someone and they get it, you can suddenly say to them: “And that’s why I’m going to be using AI.” Or, if you think that I’m using AI to make up for whatever — I am. Yes, I am. But it’s to aid communication. It’s not to reduce the quality.
Hannah: Yeah. Just to get me onto a level playing field where I’m not spending an hour writing an email that it would take somebody else five minutes to write.
Stuart: And I think we’re in the early days of large language models and generative AI as it is at the moment. Once these systems have learned your tone, your intonation, they can make you sound like a better version of yourself. And who doesn’t want to turn up as a better person?
Hannah: Always room for improvement with me, Stuart.
Stuart: Exactly. Um, it’s a little bit like… I wear glasses, you wear glasses.
Hannah: Yeah.
Stuart: I don’t not wear glasses and then squint my way through the day. And nobody says, “Oh Stuart, you’re wearing glasses. You’ve got shit eyes.”
Hannah: “You’ve got an advantage.”
Stuart: Yes — where’s your advantage? And what’s to stop you having them as binoculars and then you’ll be able to see more than me?
But the authenticity piece is I’m not doing it to mask shortfalls in my personality. What I’m doing is ensuring that my needs are met with clarity.
If that makes sense. It’s like: I know that there are some things — some inherent mental shortcuts and shortcomings — which will confuse other people. And by using AI to prevent those miscommunications, I’m better able to both work in my business and get my needs met. So I’m going to be using it, and I’m going to continue to use it. Yeah.
Hannah: But that’s the point, isn’t it? I’m not putting into it, “Please make me sound like a 20-year-old boy that likes football.” I’m not turning myself into somebody else. I’m writing a ridiculously long email and then eventually I’m second-guessing that and thinking, “Oh crap.” And then I’m sticking it into AI and saying, “Can you just lift out the really important points in this, please?”
Stuart: It’s like having your own personal PA, isn’t it?
Hannah: It literally is.
Stuart: “Here’s a draft — edit it for me.”
Hannah: Here’s a draft. Edit it for me because I just don’t know how to do that. That part of my brain does not work at the moment.
Um, I suppose what we could be asking ourselves is: who are we masking for when we use AI? You know, what do we— I mean, we’ve just kind of established really that we’re not… I don’t think that we are using AI to mask so much as—
Stuart: Oh well, I think you’re actually touching on quite an important point here. I think masking is entirely hiding yourself. It’s literally putting on a personality type, a style — and it’s usually a grab bag of things like, you know, one of your favorite actors, a few catchphrases, your go-tos. These are safe. “Oh, that’s an anecdote. I can tell again.”
That got a laugh last time. That got a laugh last time. Yeah. Exactly. So… what you’re doing is you’re using it as a filter—
Hannah: Yeah.
Stuart: —and a support system, to make up for the blind spots or the energy drop. And you think to yourself: that’s the difference between using something which is supporting you, and then using it to mask you.
It’s like: I wasn’t going to use AI to put on a complete mask. But using it to go, “I’m really tired and I don’t have the spoons to deal with this person’s situation or their energy at the current time,” and you just go to AI and you’re like, “This is what it is. This is what I need. Draft a response to this and tell them blah blah blah.”
Hannah: Yeah. Absolutely that. And I think there definitely is an element of kind of neurotypical expectation that I’m also using AI for because, you know, in the professional world it’s expected that I won’t give my life story on an email, or I won’t share my innermost secrets in a proposal to a new potential client.
And although I’m very proud of who I am, and I love who I am, and I’m fully accepting of the way that I think and all of that wonderful stuff… I also know that it is a disadvantage if I’m too much Hannah in some situations.
Stuart: Well, you think about it: neurotypicals are using it in exactly the same way to get exactly the same end results — to sound more professional, to give them an advantage. Yeah. Quicker speed, more… you know, I kind of use it as a brainstorming partner.
Hannah: It’s brilliant as just bouncing ideas off. Great for that.
Stuart: And it doesn’t argue with you. I do like the way it’s a bit of a sycophant. “Oh yeah, that’s a great idea. What a great way of thinking of it.”
Hannah: Yesterday I was doing something — just bouncing some ideas on this website—for this website, and it gave me something and I said, “That’s completely wrong,” and I’m quite rude to it. I talk to it like it’s annoying— I typed: “Why are you repeating yourself? That is completely wrong. Why have you just given me that back?” And then you get this really slightly grovelly: “Oh yes, Hannah. Good, good save, Hannah. Well spotted.” I really appreciate you.
And I just thought: that’s your flipping job, my friend. But my point being: it isn’t perfect. If you use AI as in “Write me a blog about football,” then no — that’s not the way to use AI. If you’re using AI to bounce ideas, to make things sound more succinct, to problem solve… there are so many — and that’s, you know, another episode — but there’s so many incredible ways to use it. But yeah, you’re not just saying, “Put me a proposal together for somebody.”
Stuart: I told NotebookLM today that it was crap. I asked it point blank: “Why are you crap? Why do I hate you so much?” It came back with the classic answer of insufficient parameters.
Hannah: Oh, way to sidestep that.
Stuart: Yeah, he dodged that little— yeah, idiot. But you’re 100% right. You know, it’s not there to obfuscate and basically hide the truth. It’s there to support, encourage, and improve.
And I do— you know what? People are like, “Oh, you’ve used AI on this.” There’s a lot of this on Reddit at the moment. “Oh well done, you used AI to write that.”
And a few times I’ve seen it in forums which are neurodiverse, and somebody’s going, “Oh, you’ve used AI,” and they’ve gone, “Yes, because I have trouble with dyslexia, or I have trouble putting my thoughts in a logical sequence, and I put my thoughts into AI and got it to write blah blah blah.”
I don’t really care, you know. If it’s like a bot, probably… how do you tell that in an anonymous forum whether it’s a bot or a human? You know, whatever. I kind of see it as: in some of these instances, we’re using AI as a kind of translator between the ND and the NT world.
That’s exactly what it is. Yeah. It is like having your own Babel fish that can translate your particular… wherever you are with your energy, with your mind, with your burnout, with your overwhelm, with your cognitive load, with the day as it is… and still turn up your best self every single time. Especially if you can train like a generative agent to learn your voice and become really proficient in knowing your tone and what you do.
Hannah: Yeah. And you know, I do the social media — or we both do really — but when I’m doing my bit for the social media for the Oddcast, I know the format that I want to do the posts. So, you know, I have the same format for the posts because people like that consistency, and also I don’t have the hours in the day to go off-piste every time.
And AI is magnificent for creating formats that you can keep repeating.
Stuart: It’s a great editor. It’s a great editor to have because you can tell that editor: make it happier, make it more professional, change the tone, make it shorter.
I use AI in my writing not for idea generation — in other words, like you say, don’t “write a blog post on X, Y, Z” — but I might use it to go, “Give me 10 ideas for a blog post on this.”
And 90% of the time I’ve already got like a half proto-idea with some notes, and I’m looking for a hook to hang it on, if that makes sense. And it will give you 10 varieties of hooks with different tones and angles and what have you. And one will go, “Oh, that’s it. Yes.”
And how is that any different than sitting in a room full of writers and going, “I’ve got these ideas and I need to hang it together on an idea. What can we do around this topic?” and kicking it around and working in a small team — i.e. there’s four of us. Um, not everybody is available at all times to bounce ideas off you. So having that, that you can quickly go to and say, “Give me some ideas.” Oh — game changer.
Hannah: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, as with all these things really, it’s only as good as the stuff you put into it. Okay.
Stuart: I will also caveat this with: I have no problem putting on our website what was generated with AI and what wasn’t, because 99.9% of the stuff on our website is genuinely created by us, and anything that is not, I flag what was done with the AI — because I want people to trust our content.
And we’re going to get into a period in time where people will be suspicious of everything they read online unless they believe that a human has filtered it for truth, sense, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
And I want our audience to go: I’m reading the thoughts of Stuart and Hannah — not I’m reading the thoughts of an AI that Stuart’s just done a quick pass through and then put his name on the bottom. That’s about a million miles from where I want.
So with all of our podcasts and our content on the website, I will try and put a little humorous thing about what was AI and what was human. And I will guarantee you that AI is useful for “Give me the facts around this” and summarizing something.
You know, I’m not going to go and do a load of research and summarize a 19th-century German field marshal’s thoughts… but if I can get AI to quickly give me what he said and what he actually meant, I’m going to use that, and I will tell people I’ve used it as a research tool.
Hannah: Yeah. It’s no different to spending hours on Google doing it yourself, other than you’ve got some spoons left at the end of it because AI has done it for you.
Stuart: I think the key for me is to make sure that I’m using the tool both responsibly and ethically. I think we have a duty to our audience to let them know: what did the machine do and what did a human do?
But we’ve also got a duty to ourselves to preserve our energy for, let’s face it, all this free content that we are sharing with people. And if you don’t like it, you know, you can ask for a refund.
Hannah: So I guess that brings us really to the next question: I wonder what do you think, Stu, the emotional risk of a kind of over-reliance — not over-reliant, but if somebody were to become over-reliant on AI — what is the risk of that? The emotional risk of that?
Stuart: Well, they have spoken about “AI psychosis” now. I’ve not done a deep dive into this — I’ve glossed over a couple of articles — but effectively people who believe everything that the AI is telling them, whether it’s hallucinating or not… it’s just reinforcing an echo chamber of their own opinions and ideas. I think that’s very dangerous.
But it’s a little bit like satnavs. Do you remember in the early days of satnavs — and in fact locally there is still a sign up which says, “Stop. Turn around. Go back. Your satnav is wrong.”
There were people who would end up on a beach or in weird places because they followed the satnav without mindfully… switched off their brain and just let the machine do all of the thinking. And I think that’s dangerous.
Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
Stuart: I mean, if I ask AI for anything and it comes back with strong assertion about something, I will go and fact check it, uh, because while it is a shortcut to end results, it’s not an excuse to be lazy.
Hannah: No, absolutely. And also what if it’s becoming, for somebody, a kind of false representation of themselves? It’s a bit like if you’re on a dating app and you’ve put your hottest 25-year-old version of yourself on there… and then the time comes where you’ve got to go and meet Diane in reality and you’re like, “Ooh, okay.”
Stuart: Yeah. If you’ve created — and I would strongly advise you not to do this — we’ve outlined loads of the benefits of the way we can use AI — but if you’ve created a totally pretend version that’s not true to yourself at all… then at some point, you know, what happens if somebody whips it away from you? There would be a lot of anxiety around that.
Especially in a business sense — relying on this pretend version that you’ve created via ChatGPT of yourself — and suddenly you’re on an online meeting where they’re throwing questions at you. You can’t quickly tap that into ChatGPT.
Well, I think this is going to be the death of Tinder.
Hannah: Yeah.
Stuart: Because everyone’s going to have AI-touched-up photographs and profiles that AI has written. They look very different in the flesh, and the AI bots are going to be picking each other. You know: “Oh look, these are the 10 people who most meet your general requirements.”
It’s like: dude, let’s just let the machines mate and go down the pub and have a proper conversation.
Hannah: I wonder also — little brain fart coming out here — I wonder if you could start not trusting your own intuition. You know, if you were relying too heavily on AI, then maybe you forget how good you are at something, because you’ve decided that actually maybe AI does it a bit better.
You know, if people are going down that route: don’t let it remove your soul and all your capability. It’s not doing it better than you. Or certainly if you’re using it in the way that I do, it’s not replacing the work that you do — it’s just making things a bit easier or making some tasks more manageable.
But yeah: don’t recreate a V3 of yourself in AI.
Stuart: The way I think of it is: it’s a tool to do a job. Okay. Good, bad, indifferent. How it’s programmed is a conversation for another day. And how it impacts creative and others. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole right here, right now.
But if you are using it in a way which is: everything — you throw everything into AI — and you just regurgitate everything back out of AI… good outcomes are not going to happen there.
Hannah: No, you’re erasing yourself at that point, aren’t you? You’re becoming a version of you that is not authentic. And you see, that’s the difference between the masking and the using AI: I’m not advocating for people to hide their true selves, but sometimes for your own safety, your own sanity, and your own energy levels… sometimes you need to use a tool to get the job done so that you can turn up doing the other things that you need to do in the other parts of your life.
Stuart: Yeah. Self-preservation.
Hannah: I guess… yeah. Yeah. I guess what we’re trying to say really is that if you’re using it, you’re using it intentionally rather than automatically. Not everything’s getting chucked into it — but actually you’re being… what’s the word? You’re being intentional about the way you use it. You’re not just replacing yourself with some kind of bot.
Stuart: It’s the same as speaking and having a conversation with somebody who has read a book, and having that conversation with somebody who read a summary of the book. They may very well be able to hold a conversation about the topics, but they just won’t have the same deep dive and emotional connection with various parts of the book that you know.
So yes, they’ve got a high-level understanding and a learning of that book, but it’s completely different to having read the book in its entirety — or watched the film of the book, you know.
The amount of times Jem’s read a book and we watch the film and you go, “Ah, they messed it up. They didn’t have this bit. They didn’t explore the relationship between so-and-so and such-and-such. They changed the ending a bit.” And you’re a bit like, “Oh, I want to read the book now,” but I want to read the book having not learned the story, because now I’m just reading the differences, not reading the story.
Hannah: Yeah.
I mean, here’s the thing as well. We’ve learned in previous podcasts how we’re constantly told to be consistent in business, and the reality is for a lot of us, we’re not turning up as the same version of ourselves. So on the days when I’m not my best awesome Hannah and yet I’ve still got to produce the best awesome Hannah work… then obviously I’m creating buffer days around my energy and stuff, so hopefully only rocking up as my best awesome self… but that’s not always reality.
Then that’s where AI can be helpful — you know, it’s stepping in as a kind of slight support network. You know, a little right-hand man or woman or other help… anything that can lighten the load. It’s just a helping hand. A delegation. Oh, look at me going back to last week.
Stuart: I was going to say: we did, we never stop on that. Last week. Go and check it out.
Um, I think humans are much better when they apply a little bit of situational awareness. Will this— because me and you, we’ve got mutual contacts, and sometimes the emails that you get which are newsletters and whatever… and you’re like: why did you use AI? Why didn’t you just— you’ve used it to shortcut the time thing, but you haven’t used it to increase your authenticity with me.
And I’d much rather have an imperfect short email that says, “This week it’s been absolutely flat out, so it’s a short email.” I would be much more respectful of that than a load of waffle that you can see all the hyphens and the elongated… yeah, the elongated hyphens, and the hallmarks of the M-dash. I hate an M-dash mash.
Hannah: They’re very trendy at the moment, aren’t they? But maybe it’s a bit like if you’re talking to the PA and not the boss person. You know, I want to talk to the… if you haven’t got the time to send me an email even if it’s just like, “I hope you had a good week,” or whatever… and actually you’ve created some kind of time-saving rubbish… it does remove that authenticity.
I mean, here’s a bit of an example of an AI thing gone wrong. So one of my clients was putting together a short bit of copy to go into an exhibition magazine and she’d AI’d it. She said, “I’m not very good at writing this stuff. This is what ChatGPT gave to me.”
And it was pretty good. But I said, “Okay, it’s not remembered that the people reading this are your potential clients, right? So that needs to change. It’s also not in your tone at all. It sounds nothing like your website. It sounds nothing like you. And AI has created something that’s very business-speak-y, corporate, and almost impersonal.”
Stuart: Completely impersonal.
Hannah: So I then rewrote it— rewrote it, yeah, that’s a word. My god, it’s been a long day. Hannah.
Stuart: Let’s just check Chat GPT.
Hannah: Rewrote. Um — I then edited it, went through it, proofread it, completely changed it. But actually, it did work as quite a nice structure — you know, a little… sometimes the scaffolding’s there, which takes the cognitive load off.
Stuart: Yeah.
Hannah: Sorry, I totally interrupted. It was a good starting point, wasn’t it? And actually it made her feel like she’d contributed a bit, and then I wrote it my way and gave it back to her and it was great.
But had she not had me — and she said, “This sounds very AI, what can you do to it?” — had she not had somebody with that experience, then it would have gone out into the world as something that was nothing like her business.
No one would have died as a result of it. But it’s just… yeah, that’s my point. If you’re relying on it like that, and you’re not checking it with somebody that knows a bit more… do you know what I’m saying?
Stuart: Oh, well, this completely goes back to what we were talking about: delegation last week. Because if you’re using AI to delegate the task, how well you use that tool will be reflected back in the output. Garbage in, garbage out.
So maybe you do need a human for the more creative aspects of this.
Um, I have used AI to generate a blog. I was not at all happy with the outcome. It just felt hollow. I have a particular way of writing — my style has developed over the years — I’m quite humorous. And when you’re reading something back and you’re like, “Oh, I made a joke there,” “Oh, there’s a missed opportunity there”… it just feels hollow and empty and… soulless. The animated corpse of my writing was flopping around in front of me — like a Frankensteinian version of me — like, “Oh no, terrible.”
So… and I actually enjoy my writing. I enjoy… it’s sometimes a bit like grabbing hold of a wild horse. The hyperfocus — you know, the other day I wrote a blog post and shared it with you and it was best part of 3,000 words poured out of me in about an hour flat. Like, you try typing for an hour of creative writing, you know, and I thought it was pretty damn good.
Hannah: I can second that. It was very good. And I actually enjoy the process. So why would I outsource that?
Stuart: But by the same token, I then had to answer three fairly technical emails with a customer and my brain wasn’t in the brain space it needed to be. And so I was able to draft enough into ChatGPT that it gave me a sensible professional response, which I just topped and tailed with my own kind of unique… kind of spicy.
And I’m almost telling customers now, “Look, I’ve asked ChatGPT to make this as simple as possible — here’s what it says — and I can sign off on this.” And I haven’t had anyone come back to me and say, “That’s absolutely terrible that you’re using AI.”
And if I did, I’d be like: well, you know… you wanted a timely response. If you wanted me to do this with my own energy and my own words, it’s going to be a day or two.
Yeah. Extra money, that’ll stop them complaining. I mean, that’s the point, right? Your clients — our clients — want the best work. So, however we get to that point shouldn’t really be relevant, should it? If we’re delivering it.
I mean, I’m not suggesting — we’ve said it already — we’re not saying create rubbish. But the point being: why would anybody say, “Oh, Stuart, I can see that you’ve given me a nice succinct email there and you might have done it in ChatGPT — would they complain about that?” I don’t know.
Hannah: I think for a lot of my customers, they’re so busy they’d read the answer and they wouldn’t even think about, “Oh, does she use ChatGPT?” or whatever. I think that for us, we are detail people.
Stuart: That’s what we do. We spend all day, every day getting to the nub of what the problem is — problem solving — which is all about detail. They say, “Oh, the devil’s in the detail.” No: the answer is in the detail. You just got to get into enough detail to find the right answer.
Hannah: Yeah.
Stuart: So I think this kind of segues really nicely into the final point, which is that we maybe need to redefine what authenticity is in a tech-orientated, tech-supported world.
Think of this in terms of Stephen Hawking. He was somebody for whom technology gave a lifeline — a literal lifeline. Somebody who was living a life in his brain and his body had failed him, but he had a communication tool with the outside world. And years later technology got better — obviously it improved — his voice system got better.
But they said to him, “Would you like us to change your voice? Would you like us to make it less robotic, more human?” He said, “No, no — that’s my voice.” And that’s the point: he felt that that was his authentic way of communicating. If he changed it now, he would have to learn what he sounded like. Imagine waking up tomorrow and you sounded completely different. It would feel genuinely weird.
Hannah: Yes. Oh yeah. Really weird.
Stuart: So I kind of get it: the technology should be there to underpin and support— not overtake and replace.
Hannah: Yeah. It’s not cancelling who we are, is it?
Stuart: No. And we all use technology every single day. Glasses, clothes, food, driving, houses. There isn’t an element of what is around you right now which isn’t an aspect of technology. We have completely replaced our natural environments with technology-led environments which support better human outcomes. You know, who doesn’t like having a warm house when they get up in the morning.
Hannah: I like that.
Stuart: Yeah, exactly. And we found that was better than having to stoke a fire and cut down firewood and do all the rest of it.
Hannah: We’ve evolved.
Stuart: We have evolved. And I think that we are in the early stages of figuring this stuff out. And having been through figuring out what DVDs were, figuring out what the internet was, figuring out what mobile phones were… humans will be endlessly creative, and they will figure out how to use AI so that it works for us and doesn’t just end up being a complete crutch that everybody uses blanketly all the time because, hey, you know, that’s not a good way of living.
Hannah: No, it isn’t. And you probably… people will find — if they haven’t already — you’ll be using it for the stuff that doesn’t come naturally. You know, people don’t employ me or become my clients because I’m great at sending emails. That’s not the service they’re getting from me.
So if I get some help writing my emails, then they don’t care because they’re buying strategy and copywriting and all of that stuff from me. They’re not doing it based on whether I can send a good email or not.
So yeah — it’s not a lie, is it? You’re not living a lie.
Stuart: No. And to be fair, our guys who supply our servers and manage our servers for us, they use an AI on the first line of support. So you’ll send your support ticket in and within two or three minutes you’ll get an AI response.
Now initially I was a bit like, “Oh, that’s a bit lazy.” But actually, the last two times I’ve used it… well, the last time I used it, the AI was wrong. And I did point this out. I said, “This is a training moment.”
But the two times previously it found the right support article and gave me a link and I clicked it and it solved my problem. And I guess… yes, I could have asked a human and a human could have done the same…
But I want speed. I want the resolution. Even if I have to read an article and apply that myself. Having that immediately is much more value to me than having a human come back to me in an hour’s time—or sitting in a chat queue waiting for them to answer you, because you can’t really do anything else because your brain’s just like spinning a cursor.
So I think there are fantastic applications. I think there are some wonderful ways that it can be used. But it shouldn’t supplant and suppress — it should enhance and create opportunities, so that your brain isn’t completely frazzled. It can delegate stuff out to ChatGPT or whatever LLM you’re using.
Hannah: Yeah, I like that.
Stuart: I mean, that’s any technology, isn’t it? It should be used to support rather than surpass and replace.
Hannah: Yeah. I mean, exactly that. If I’m using — as I regularly do — one of my multiple list-creating apps, you know, seem to be collecting them… no one’s saying, “Oh, look at you cheating, getting your list together.” “Look at you using a phone to remember the things”.
Stuart: Look at you using a calendar so you turn up on time. I mean that’s the point, isn’t it? That is the point.
I suppose we all use the tools that we need to make our lives easier, more efficient, you know, better for us. The other thing with humans is — and I’ve seen this so many times — there will be an overuse of a new piece of technology and it will get to a ridiculous point. Everyone will recognise that, but there’ll be a few hand-wringers who will run around with their hair on fire going, “Oh my god, this is terrible. Think of the children,” about whatever it is that they’re passionate about.
And it’s like: yeah, but you’re going to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, because there’s a lot of good that is being done for people in areas where this technology is being used in a productive way.
Just because it can also be twisted by humans to be used in an unproductive way or a harmful way doesn’t mean to say it needs to be banned or regulated.
Hannah: Yeah, I mean, I’ve seen it on LinkedIn — everybody was going through a phase of clearly using it to write their posts and it started to churn out… everyone was churning out the same beige rubbish. And now you see people coming and posting like, “Oh, it’s really annoying that everyone’s using AI…” So actually, like you said, there is a backlash.
Stuart: Yeah. It’s going round and now people are actually pushing for the authenticity of not using it to write your posts from scratch. It’s got a button right at the bottom. It says, “Would you like AI to rewrite this post?” And I’m like, “No, I think you’ll find that it’s perfect.”
Very happy with it, thank you very much. I feel slightly RSD at that, actually.
Hannah:Yeah. What are you saying?
Stuart: Yeah. Why don’t you like my writing?
So we’ve discussed a lot around AI — how it can be used and useful, and how it can be overused and unuseful. Um, we’d be great to hear any of your comments, thoughts, feedback. Are you using AI? If you’re using AI, maybe you’re using it in a way we could use ourselves — that would be quite useful.
So, if you’ve got any stories, resources, tips, hints, feedback — do let us know.
Hannah: Um, Stuart — takeaways? Got any takeaways for the Odd Squad?
Stuart; Support should reduce the pressure on you, right? Not create new expectations or make you start to feel paranoid that in your entire life you’re not as good as when you’re living your best life through ChatGPT.
Hannah: And also masking is completely acceptable. It’s a huge part of what we all need to do. There’s no shame around that. And it’s about survival — it’s not about dishonesty. It’s the way that we survive in a world where we’re not pointing in the same direction as the majority.
Stuart: It’s a crazy world and it’s tough at the best of times, and then you add into it all of the rest of the stuff. If you can take some small advantage — take it.
Hannah: Yeah. What about tips and—
Stuart: I don’t think you should question your use of a tool. It’s just a tool. Um, as I said, the ethical implications of that — not for now. But if you are fatigued by masking then it’s a great way of using it invisibly which doesn’t really harm anyone — especially if you monitor it and are measured and intentional with your application of it.
And it’s not just like you’ve said — a blanket knee-jerk: “Right, I need to go and write an email, I’ll just go straight to ChatGPT.” But you can do it in small ways: write the email, send it into ChatGPT (or whatever LLM) and ask it to shorten it, rewrite it, put more clarity in it, or improve it. Um, when you don’t have the skills to do that — good outcomes for everyone. Yeah.
And if you’re worried that the customer is going to think, “Oh, well, it’s terrible you’re using ChatGPT,” that’ll change in time because everybody else is using it. So people’s judgment will be low because they’ll be like, “Oh yeah. Well, who am I? I’m using it, so I can’t pick on Hannah because she’s using it.”
Hannah: Um, also — sorry to interrupt you there, Stuart — but if you, with your different… we’ve got a lot of overlapping skill sets, but we’ve also got some differing ones too. If you and I were given the same task and we both went to ChatGPT, we would get completely different responses because you would put in a lot of different prompts than I would.
So it isn’t that, well, then anybody can be a copywriter now that we’ve got ChatGPT. Well, it doesn’t work like that. Anybody can be a strategist. It doesn’t work like that. We’ve covered it already. But you know, it’s what you put in. You put rubbish in, you get rubbish out.
And when you get the response coming back — if you’re anything like me — you then have to keep putting in more and more prompts until you finally tune this beautiful thing that you’re creating. In reality, sometimes it probably takes longer that way than actually just doing it. But sometimes it’s the process we need to go through — keep the momentum going.
Stuart: It’s like having a writing partner or a productivity partner that is able to make up for the shortcomings for whatever reason. And there’s no judgment there at that particular moment. And it gives you some mental clarity because if it comes back and you’re reading it and going, “That’s not quite right,” well, that’s your judgment. That’s what you’re being paid for.
Ultimately, don’t sweat tweaks and changes and all the rest of it. If it’s helping you to achieve the big overall goal of whatever it is the customer has asked you to do — you’re delivering it.
Hannah: But you summed it up right there. They’re asking you to achieve an end result, not write perfect emails.
Stuart: So, you know, don’t feel any pressure to sound perfect. Because actually a lot of the time we’re all imperfect and we’re just trying to get by in the day as best we can and achieve the results that we can.
And then you add on top of that: “Is it masking or is it this?” Oh, get over yourselves. I just haven’t got time to get into all of that. It’s a tool. I’ve used it. It did a good job at the things I’ve asked it to do. I’ve got to monitor my use of it because it’s not a blanket thing. No.
But I will be using it again in future.
Hannah: Yeah. And it’s not giving us an advantage — it’s probably putting us on a level playing field, to be honest with you. We’re literally just… yeah.
Stuart: My god. If I went on an AI, an LLM, and the next week I was as rich as any of the billionaires in the world — then yeah, fair play.
But actually, when it’s just helping you draft an email — get over yourself. It’s an email.
Hannah: Just helping you talk.
Stuart: Yeah. It’s helped me function because my brain for today is just listening to one song over and over and over and over again, and I’m waiting for a parcel which has not turned up and I can’t think of anything else. So, you know, cut me some slack.
The fact that I’m actually sat still — not pacing up and down — because I’ve got a bee in my head.
Hannah: Can I go off on a tangent that might get edited out later?
Stuart: Go.
Hannah: So I was at a family event over Christmas and the topic of the fact that I have a blue badge for my parking because of various disability things going on
Stuart: — mobility needs.
Hannah: Yeah, that’s the right words, Stu.
Um, I could hear them — and no disrespect to them, they’re my awesome family — but I could hear them chatting, and one of them is like, “Oh my goodness, that’s amazing. So she can park really close to the— and she doesn’t have to pay for parking. I can’t believe it. Oh wow.” And then one of the other ones like, “Yeah, I know. They’re incredible. Like, wouldn’t you want one?”
And then one of my fabulous sister-in-laws said, “Yeah, I think Hannah would probably just prefer to not need one, to be honest.”
And I called over from my corner: “Yeah — the only thing better than a blue badge is having a body that works properly, right?”
And they were all like… you could see them all go, “Oh. Oh yeah.”
Stuart: It’s not a privilege.
Hannah: Yeah. It’s not… I’ve not got an advantage. I can’t walk as far as the people, you know what I mean?
Stuart: We’ve said this before and we will no doubt say it again: equity is not equality. Equity of outcome is about giving people what they need to get through their day.
And if that means noise-cancelling headphones and dark glasses — that’s not a privilege. That’s just preventing them from killing you—
Hannah: Yes.
Stuart: —everyone around them and then themselves.
Hannah: Everyone’s a winner.
Stuart: Yeah. So think about that the next time you’re saying that somebody doesn’t need noise-cancelling headphones. Just think about them running riot in the yoga aisle in ASDA and think how bad that could actually get.
Hannah: I like that.
Stuart: So, on that note… on that bombshell… thank you for listening to another business podcast. If you’ve liked what you’ve heard, leave a comment, share it with friends, get in touch: [hosts@businesspodcast.com](mailto:hosts@businesspodcast.com) — or just go to businesspodcast.com and send us a message through the website form there — or join up to our mailing list, where we will send out sporadic and inconsistent emails to you to remind you that we’re doing this once a week.
But it drops on a Wednesday morning — just set a reminder to go to your favorite podcasting platform: Apple, Spotify… other podcasts are available… or just go to businesspodcast.com and find the latest episodes there.
So Hannah — that’s it for the business podcast this week, and all we need to do now is to find out what the topic is for next week. What’s the topic of the week next week? Topic of the week, episode 26.
Hannah: I know. I know. We are steaming ahead. So the topic 26 is called “Running on Empty: How ND Works” — we’re taking a deep dive into that. So I’m going to have to— or the lack of energy. I’m going to have to troll through the trauma and the lack of energy?
There’s going to be a lot of crying, people lying flat. I might have to do it in my dressing gown.
Stuart: Yes, we could do it in pyjamas. Pyjamas. And ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the trauma. Pull up a chair.
Hannah: What if the irony — if we didn’t have the energy to do the episode?
Stuart: Well, we use AI. It’s just empty space. AI talking: “Hello, Hannah. I am your—”
Hannah: —couple of cardboard people… and just like, “Oh gosh, that’s so good.”
Stuart: Well, ladies and gentlemen, we may be here next week. We may not. No, we will definitely be here discussing “Running on Empty” and energy needs of the neurodiverse. Thank you very much for listening. I’ve been your host Stuart Morrison. Goodbye.
Hannah: Bye